Joe, you know I love you, but for God’s sake stop repeating the propaganda that Russia is “illegally occupying” Ukrainian territory. Russia entered the Donbass—and has remained there for the duration—at the request of the governments of those states, which voted for via referendum official independence twice. After the second referendum, they petitioned the Duma for inclusion in the Russian Federation, which was granted, and requested military assistance.
And if you refer to the Crimea, those people also voted overwhelmingly to be part of Russia. So, Russia is only “illegally occupying” anything according to the Ukrainian government that has made speaking Russian a crime, banned any and all Russian culture, and imprisoned clergy of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church for refusing to disconnect itself from the Russian church it has been part of for centuries. And their US enablers.
This is ridiculous. What, pray tell, would you think if Israel held a referendum in parts of occupied Gaza or the West Bank and the results showed that people there wanted to join Israel? It would obviously be a fraud and would not make the occupation legal. That is just want the Russians did, the referendums only happened after the Russia army marched in. They were obviously rigged.
Just like opposing injustice, opposing imperialism in one place requires imperialism everywhere.
No, it’s not “what the Russians did”. The first referendum in the Donbass was in 2014 right after the US overthrew the elected president of Ukraine. The second was after the US armed the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion in 2022 in preparation for a full-scale invasion after the Donbass having been bombarded for 8 years. I also can’t help but notice you very carefully ignored what I reported about what Ukraine did—or is it your position that’s total fiction as well?
One can criticise the Ukrainian government for their restrictions on the Russian language and their replacing the Ukrainian Orthodox Church with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine however you frame the course of events completely backwards.
Russia first invaded Crimea and then “annexed” it. then they invaded the Donbas. These so called separatists were almost all Russian citizens armed by the Russian federation and operating under its instructions. This was no legitimate rebellion it was a foreign invasion. The Ukrainian government and people had every right to fight back.
As for the Azov battalion, it was a paramilitary that represented less than 0.5% of the active duty military. It was a true outlier that, in any event, was completely destroyed in its original form along with all of its nazi members. There was no concerted Ukrainian bombardment of the Donbas, there were back and forth skirmishes between soldiers.
The restriction on language — it’s not actually banned by the way — Russian culture has not been banned either and the changing of the church didn’t happen until Russia’s full scale invasion in 2022. Which is to say they are reactive war time measures to prevent the destruction often country by a foreign invader.
Hmm…why the sudden change of heart?
Joe, you know I love you, but for God’s sake stop repeating the propaganda that Russia is “illegally occupying” Ukrainian territory. Russia entered the Donbass—and has remained there for the duration—at the request of the governments of those states, which voted for via referendum official independence twice. After the second referendum, they petitioned the Duma for inclusion in the Russian Federation, which was granted, and requested military assistance.
And if you refer to the Crimea, those people also voted overwhelmingly to be part of Russia. So, Russia is only “illegally occupying” anything according to the Ukrainian government that has made speaking Russian a crime, banned any and all Russian culture, and imprisoned clergy of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church for refusing to disconnect itself from the Russian church it has been part of for centuries. And their US enablers.
This is ridiculous. What, pray tell, would you think if Israel held a referendum in parts of occupied Gaza or the West Bank and the results showed that people there wanted to join Israel? It would obviously be a fraud and would not make the occupation legal. That is just want the Russians did, the referendums only happened after the Russia army marched in. They were obviously rigged.
Just like opposing injustice, opposing imperialism in one place requires imperialism everywhere.
No, it’s not “what the Russians did”. The first referendum in the Donbass was in 2014 right after the US overthrew the elected president of Ukraine. The second was after the US armed the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion in 2022 in preparation for a full-scale invasion after the Donbass having been bombarded for 8 years. I also can’t help but notice you very carefully ignored what I reported about what Ukraine did—or is it your position that’s total fiction as well?
One can criticise the Ukrainian government for their restrictions on the Russian language and their replacing the Ukrainian Orthodox Church with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine however you frame the course of events completely backwards.
Russia first invaded Crimea and then “annexed” it. then they invaded the Donbas. These so called separatists were almost all Russian citizens armed by the Russian federation and operating under its instructions. This was no legitimate rebellion it was a foreign invasion. The Ukrainian government and people had every right to fight back.
As for the Azov battalion, it was a paramilitary that represented less than 0.5% of the active duty military. It was a true outlier that, in any event, was completely destroyed in its original form along with all of its nazi members. There was no concerted Ukrainian bombardment of the Donbas, there were back and forth skirmishes between soldiers.
The restriction on language — it’s not actually banned by the way — Russian culture has not been banned either and the changing of the church didn’t happen until Russia’s full scale invasion in 2022. Which is to say they are reactive war time measures to prevent the destruction often country by a foreign invader.
I must respectfully decline to continue this discussion, as it's unfair to take advantage of the undereducated. Enjoy your alternate reality.