58 Comments
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Rose (aka Kit)'s avatar

Okay. But if Democrats become Republican lite, what's the point of voting for them? Didn't we already conclude that voting "against" something isn't enough - you actually have to give people something to vote for?

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Joe Wrote's avatar

You're right, which is what all these data-only analyses miss. If Democrats are soft Republicans, why not vote for the real thing?

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Rose (aka Kit)'s avatar

I really thought we had learned, but if *I* have learned one thing... it's that Democrats (at least the leadership) apparently don't.

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Ron's avatar

Yes, because the GOP supports men in women's sports and taxpayer funded college. The parties are totally the same!

Have you ever even *spoken* to a moderate person in a swing state dude? You are so out of touch you have no idea out how of touch you are. All polling supports the crystal clear idea that the parties are different. You are just mad that socialism polls lower than a colonoscopy.

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Rose (aka Kit)'s avatar

We know the parties are different - that's what we're saying. Democrats trying to be Republican *lite* doesn't work. :)

And it doesn't really matter how socialism polls. Capitalism is unsustainable - the difference is if we engineer a better world for ourselves, or if we just allow it to collapse.

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Ron's avatar

Ah yes, the "capitalism is unsustainable" trope. Well, we've tried everything else and everything else is worse. Sorry.

Sorry, the parties can't be "different" and also one side the other side "light". That literally makes no sense.

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Rose (aka Kit)'s avatar

I'm very curious as to how you think going on as we've been, on a planet with finite resources, ends.

And of course it is, you've seen the appeals Dems have made to Republicans.

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Ron's avatar

Last time I checked the Sun is an infinite power source. Your argument makes no sense. Degrowth mindset is a curse. (and typical of left-wing virtue-signalers who have had cushy lives)

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Ron's avatar

People 100 years ago thought we were going to run out of horses to carry us around. Guess what? People are pretty smart. We'll figure it out.

I don't have a direct answer, but I do know with 100% certainly that "give up, the world is going to shrink and we are gonna have a lower quality of life" is not a winning political slogan.

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Matthew Johnson's avatar

Everything else "is worse" in the sense that we will kill you for trying it.

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Frank Winstan's avatar

I would be very happy if the Democrats stood for and worked towards economic decency and limiting the power of and fairly taxing the multi-billionaires who are increasingly shaping everyone’s lives. That’s a winning position. It would also be nice if they told the “dicks belong on women’s sports teams “ loudmouths to back the fuck off. That’s not a winning position and it’s based on a twisted interpretation of civil rights. (Talking to you Chase Stangio

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Matthew Johnson's avatar

Maybe this time they'll vote for the fake Republican instead of the real one! 😀

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Rachel Baldes's avatar

I think Chris Hedges has it correct when he says the DNC is Trump's greatest ally. I find it too far-fetched at this point that the people making this argument (and being well compensated to do so) truly care about winning over more voters. They care about preserving the appearance of caring and the debatable appearance of being the opposition to the Republican party. What's most important to them is that no other opposition party has a chance as long as they're in control. With the exception of a few representatives and maybe two senators, I don't see near enough active opposing happening.

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Joe Wrote's avatar

I think you're right. In their defense, these wonky types don't always realize they're doing it. I'm sure some will say they believe what they're saying, but to me that's a distinction without a difference.

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Rachel Baldes's avatar

I believe some politicians are interested in changing the party from within, probably more on local levels than we'll ever know. Most of them get outspent, or if they win they get disillusioned and demotivated, or get cynical and jaded and sell out. You are willing to give the wonks more credit for forthrightness than I can. Maybe it's all the explanations accounting for my own stupidity, ignorance, inherent laziness or some other stereotype or backhanded compliment I've read in their work. They paint my demographic as selfish and disinterested in others when that's more a reflection of their own limited imaginations.

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Godfrey Moase's avatar

The DNC is in a sort of unstable ecological equilibrium with the MAGA wing. The DNC gives the veneer of a leftism (without consequences for the ruling class) for MAGA. The MAGA right gives the DNC a reason to exist without actually pursuing any real leftist policies.

The fake opposition works for two political factions as the world burns. We can see that in the actions of either party. Any political operation would’ve given Trump the Bolsonaro treatment post-Jan 6 but they didn’t. If MAGA thought the DNC were the evil they claim them to be Trump would be going all out for Silwa rather than Cuomo.

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Joe Wrote's avatar

I will NEVER stop claiming that Trump should've been in an orange jumpsuit before a judge on January 7th, 2021. He was 100% guilty, and the problems we're dealing with now are because Biden let him off the hook for "respectability."

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Godfrey Moase's avatar

The actions of either faction (as opposed to their rhetoric) is that they are the mutually preferred opposition to each other, and therefore exist in a sort of symbiosis.

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Kaimataara's avatar

Liberals need to realise

You shouldn't be a moderate in the face of fascism

Because you can't moderate fascism.

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Lynn Reuschell's avatar

Things are starting to shift a bit in some spaces. As noted in this Substack post, the entire Republican Party remade itself in less than a generation. We don’t have to keep playing along.

https://open.substack.com/pub/appodlachia/p/my-view-of-politics-has-changed-a?r=3daky&utm_medium=ios

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Joe Wrote's avatar

It will be more difficult for the left to replicate the Tea Party model, simply because we don't have big business behind us. That said, I think your point is something we should keep in mind. One of the parties has been successfully recreated, so it's possible the other can, too.

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Ken Kovar's avatar

I’m not welcoming that report penned by losers and read by losers. I’m looking at the winners for guidance, especially Mayor Mamdani 😎

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Ron's avatar

I like how you conveniently leave out the public support for taxpayer bailouts of college kids and just focus on "Medicare For All".

Of course "free healthcare" will poll well, dummies. People have no idea what it will cost. It's a total distraction, and yet you all keep obsessing over it.

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Joe Wrote's avatar

I focused on Medicare for All because that was the core of their report, as evidence by the executive summary.

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Ron's avatar
Nov 4Edited

Dems keep losing because of out-of-touch left wingers like yourself. M4A will never happen because the dems will never win the senate with left-wing crazies talking about gender woo and free college.

You literally have no plan to win the senate. 0. All you left wingers do is complain. Moderates are too busy winning.

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R0ADHAU5's avatar

How'd that work out in 2024? Those moderates really did a great job keeping israel stocked with bombs and really set up Trump nicely for his 2nd term.

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Ron's avatar

Please go talk to some normal voters in Ohio. They do not care about Gaza.

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R0ADHAU5's avatar

Everything you say makes much more sense when I realized "normal" to you means "agrees with you".

In real life, I guarantee if you went through Normaltowne, Ohio, or Regularville, Michigan and asked Joe Everyman and Sally Worksashift what they thought about US foreign aid to Israel, you wouldn't get a favorable response.

Maybe the unconditional support for the foreign entity is a bit out of touch?

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Ron's avatar

They are literally concerned with cereal prices. Try again boss.

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Ron's avatar

You leftists keep bringing up Zohran Mamdani as if that is proof socialism is popular in America.

Which also proves how dumb you are.

You do know he is running for mayor of New York city, the most left-leaning city in the USA? Are you not smart enough to know that NYC is not the same as the USA?

And no, Kamala was not a moderate, no matter how many articles you post. She supports gender woo, higher taxes to pay for college for yuppies, and affirmative action.

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Baga Bones's avatar

I think the title of most left-leaning city would go to Berkeley or Seattle but that the peasants of Capitalist Central also lean left should tell you something: socialism isn’t popular but socialist policies are.

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R0ADHAU5's avatar

Alternatively maybe you aren't as "moderate" as you think you are. Far-right Democrat "Matt" opposes basically any pro-social policy.

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Ron's avatar

No I’m a real Democrat not a socialist. Thanks.

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R0ADHAU5's avatar

Good for you. Real Democrats (TM) are pretty good at losing elections, so keep up the good work!

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Ron's avatar

Like Obama and Biden and Clinton?

Yup!

You aren’t good at this kid.

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Joe Wrote's avatar

"She supports gender woo" - lol

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Ron's avatar
Nov 5Edited

“lol” is why Kamala lost and we have trump. Taking extreme gender options and laughing about it. But to you socialist dummies I think you actually prefer trump so you can keep complaining about socialism. Because you are dumb.

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Callum's avatar

Dont reason from 1 data point

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