If the dose was too small, then the medicine by definition did not work. It doesn’t matter whether it didn’t work because the dose was too small, it was the wrong drug, or the pharmacist didn’t hold his mouth right when he typed up the label - the result is the same. The patient sickens and dies.
Great article. I think this is just another example of the futility of working within the Democratic Party as socialists. At the end of the day, establishment hacks would rather burn the party to the ground than allow it to be overtaken by socialists.
I think you're right, they will burn it to the ground rather than cede it to socialists. Where we differ is that they've yet to do so, which means it has potential as a useful vehicle to promote the socialist message. That said, we shouldn't believe our end goals can be accomplished through the Democratic Party.
I appreciate your perspective, Joe. Though I disagree with you on the utility of using the Democratic Party to promote the socialist message, I agree that our end goals cannot be achieved through the Democratic Party.
Would love to read a longer piece of your perspective on this matter.
I guess my main question is this: how do we determine when the utility of the Democratic Party will be eclipsed by the utility of building a new party? Why can’t we begin the latter project while continuing the former? I’m not for election abstentionism, and I’m down to strategically support socialists running as Dems when they choose to do so, but I consistently see the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to the compromises politicians make in order to ensure their survival within the Democratic Party.
Would also like to read your thoughts on the US Labor Party initiative of the 90s.
There just isn't any sensible alternative, given how thoroughly laws against alternative parties were put in place after the success of the Populists. And it's not "working within", it's employing them as a tool, which isn't the same thing. And bear in mind it's Clinton's New Democrats running things, and there are basically 115 of them in Congress. Getting rid of them and replacing them with progressive populists seems like a no-brainer.
Apology accepted, but you did “put words in my mouth”, whether you intended to or not, which rather makes a discussion in good faith difficult, especially when you get on your high horse when it gets called out. One can’t have a discussion about something that was never offered as a topic.
"Rather, I view this work as a preemptive defense against the inevitable sabotage these guys will try to attempt against any 2028 Democratic Presidential nominee to the left of Gavin Newsom."
You also help nonpublic political commentators understand how to talk to these people. Centrism can sound tolerable to the untrained ear
To keep the medical metaphor going, the medicine given to Harris killed her and the DNC has the results of the autopsy but refuses to make it public after promising that they would. That's all that you need to know. Another cover-up.
Democrats who stick to this middle of the road horse shit or why can’t we all get along are just trying to fawn away the real issue which is rank lawlessness and enduring and ongoing racism and misogyny. Black and white issues with no middle ground. Real reason for me that the donor democrats need to GTFO along with the cult republicans is the concentration camp/gestapo explosion happening. It is really bad now. Imagine if we let the private sector in to do their thing secretly in the new industry we have created and they go all the way with the plan for years. The entire government except for those honorable enough to know to honor their oath of office wants to turn us in to El Salvador the prison country or turn the people in to Russians or Palestinians that we can just kill when we don’t imprison them for profit. The people need help. Rapid strike forces for civil unrest and more Forward Operating Bases should scare the fucking shit out of all the people living here. Meanwhile twerking is called “smut” by idiot politicians.
So, basically, Harris had good ratings prior to the convention because nobody really knew who she was—they were very good at keeping her media coverage low. Once they saw what they were getting, people started walking away.
Contrast that to Vance, who gets almost as much media attention as the Donald, and is always presented as sane and intelligent no matter how crazy what he says actually is. And now I'm seeing more and more subtly negative focus on the Donald, including a rather large dome of silence about his appearances in those files.
I'm still thinking we won't have to wait till 2028 for a President Vance.
Yep! I think people were excited about Harris being the nominee because for the first time in a long time, the Democratic Party did not the worst thing possible. But when they showed they would return to worst thing possible, people turned away.
Yeah Kamala had some proposals like tax credits for newborns and first time homebuyers. But who was paying attention when Insane Clown was drowning her out calling her stupid and incompetent. What good does it do when no one believes you have what it takes to carry out your proposals? I knew Kamala was fucked right after the debate when everyone was rejoicing and the CNN poll said she won by a 2 to 1 majority. They all failed to notice that same poll by a 20 point margin still favored Insane Clown running the economy. Accepting the blame for inflation when the blame clearly lies with Insane Clown's clownish pandemic response was nothing short of political malpractice. As was refusing to utter the forbidden words Project 25 and above all "YOU BELONG IN JAIL". Those 4 words alone would have been a game changer and adding for good measure that no one knows better than Insane Clown himself which is why he pleaded like a bitch for immunity. Insane Clown was eminently and easily beatable by damn near anyone but no one wants a Barbie Doll for president and that is what Democrats presented as the alternative to this Insane Clown madman. Predictably voters went with the madman. Damn shame.
I love the debate as an example. The centrists view politics as a debate. All you need to do is have better policies, and voters will flock to you. But Kamala Harris literally won the debate, and Trump won the election. You need more than just being "the bigger adult."
Thanks! As for Twitter, I generally go wherever the people are. Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Music/Podcasts, and even Substack have problematic ownership that is too right-wing for my taste. If I only used social media (or any other type of company) that aligned with my values, my message wouldn't reach anyone. Though I understand others have a different view.
Bc a lot of non-Nazis still use it. Should we cede that ground to neoliberal freaks like Chait? I’d rather people like Joe stay there and provide counter-arguments to their out of touch nonsense.
How many of their actual audience are still on X, though? And since those are de facto the audience for rebuttal, it strikes me the conversations would be more effective on BlueSky.
My assessment of her loss is not so much in terms of 'moving left vs right'. Declaring that she'd be Biden 2.0 was a massive mistake. Voters wanted a better path on healthcare like M4A (heck, even right-wingers are saying we need to find something better than the status quo). Even if M4A is dead on arrival in the Senate, it's a motivating message, and breaking up the giant healthcare monopolies and building a stronger pipeline of doctors and nurse practitioners would at least be a good-faith down payment (with strong bipartisan appeal, I might add). So she definitely should have moved leftward on healthcare. However, voters did indicate that lax border enforcement was a problem, but they did NOT want masked, unaccountable, undertrained, Trump-loyal cosplayers ripping people out of their homes and cars on their way to work, and this was entirely predictable for anyone that had been paying attention to Trump's rhetoric. Promising to return to Obama-style border enforcement would have sorted that issue for her, instead she essentially promised to do nothing re the border and nothing re the huge increase in abuse of the asylum system as a backdoor immigration system. She also ignored voter concern about inflation, at least paying lip service to fighting inflation and bringing down grocery prices would have helped.
If the dose was too small, then the medicine by definition did not work. It doesn’t matter whether it didn’t work because the dose was too small, it was the wrong drug, or the pharmacist didn’t hold his mouth right when he typed up the label - the result is the same. The patient sickens and dies.
It was such a terrible analogy.
Great article. I think this is just another example of the futility of working within the Democratic Party as socialists. At the end of the day, establishment hacks would rather burn the party to the ground than allow it to be overtaken by socialists.
I think you're right, they will burn it to the ground rather than cede it to socialists. Where we differ is that they've yet to do so, which means it has potential as a useful vehicle to promote the socialist message. That said, we shouldn't believe our end goals can be accomplished through the Democratic Party.
I appreciate your perspective, Joe. Though I disagree with you on the utility of using the Democratic Party to promote the socialist message, I agree that our end goals cannot be achieved through the Democratic Party.
Would love to read a longer piece of your perspective on this matter.
I guess my main question is this: how do we determine when the utility of the Democratic Party will be eclipsed by the utility of building a new party? Why can’t we begin the latter project while continuing the former? I’m not for election abstentionism, and I’m down to strategically support socialists running as Dems when they choose to do so, but I consistently see the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to the compromises politicians make in order to ensure their survival within the Democratic Party.
Would also like to read your thoughts on the US Labor Party initiative of the 90s.
There just isn't any sensible alternative, given how thoroughly laws against alternative parties were put in place after the success of the Populists. And it's not "working within", it's employing them as a tool, which isn't the same thing. And bear in mind it's Clinton's New Democrats running things, and there are basically 115 of them in Congress. Getting rid of them and replacing them with progressive populists seems like a no-brainer.
I disagree that we’re using the Dems more than they’re using us. But I’d love to be proven wrong!
Where did I say that? Go ahead, show me where I said that. I’ll wait.
I apologize, not trying to put words in your mouth. Just trying to discuss this in good faith. No need for such snark.
Apology accepted, but you did “put words in my mouth”, whether you intended to or not, which rather makes a discussion in good faith difficult, especially when you get on your high horse when it gets called out. One can’t have a discussion about something that was never offered as a topic.
So
"Rather, I view this work as a preemptive defense against the inevitable sabotage these guys will try to attempt against any 2028 Democratic Presidential nominee to the left of Gavin Newsom."
You also help nonpublic political commentators understand how to talk to these people. Centrism can sound tolerable to the untrained ear
Great point. Thanks for that!
To keep the medical metaphor going, the medicine given to Harris killed her and the DNC has the results of the autopsy but refuses to make it public after promising that they would. That's all that you need to know. Another cover-up.
lol excellent point
You ratioing these guys had me giggling and kicking my feet
Then you'll love this. Milan is a fellow at The Argument. https://x.com/joewrote/status/2020954316232851689/photo/1
"90% of them are self-serving frauds"
For real.
🙏
Democrats who stick to this middle of the road horse shit or why can’t we all get along are just trying to fawn away the real issue which is rank lawlessness and enduring and ongoing racism and misogyny. Black and white issues with no middle ground. Real reason for me that the donor democrats need to GTFO along with the cult republicans is the concentration camp/gestapo explosion happening. It is really bad now. Imagine if we let the private sector in to do their thing secretly in the new industry we have created and they go all the way with the plan for years. The entire government except for those honorable enough to know to honor their oath of office wants to turn us in to El Salvador the prison country or turn the people in to Russians or Palestinians that we can just kill when we don’t imprison them for profit. The people need help. Rapid strike forces for civil unrest and more Forward Operating Bases should scare the fucking shit out of all the people living here. Meanwhile twerking is called “smut” by idiot politicians.
So, basically, Harris had good ratings prior to the convention because nobody really knew who she was—they were very good at keeping her media coverage low. Once they saw what they were getting, people started walking away.
Contrast that to Vance, who gets almost as much media attention as the Donald, and is always presented as sane and intelligent no matter how crazy what he says actually is. And now I'm seeing more and more subtly negative focus on the Donald, including a rather large dome of silence about his appearances in those files.
I'm still thinking we won't have to wait till 2028 for a President Vance.
Yep! I think people were excited about Harris being the nominee because for the first time in a long time, the Democratic Party did not the worst thing possible. But when they showed they would return to worst thing possible, people turned away.
Joe - you might enjoy reading Henry Farrell’s piece on the median voter theorem.
I’ll check it out!
Programmable mutter. He is a lefty political scientist. I have enjoyed him a lot.
One of his arguments is the left has to seriously organize political power (it’s partyism over popularism vs populism(voter turn out)
Yeah Kamala had some proposals like tax credits for newborns and first time homebuyers. But who was paying attention when Insane Clown was drowning her out calling her stupid and incompetent. What good does it do when no one believes you have what it takes to carry out your proposals? I knew Kamala was fucked right after the debate when everyone was rejoicing and the CNN poll said she won by a 2 to 1 majority. They all failed to notice that same poll by a 20 point margin still favored Insane Clown running the economy. Accepting the blame for inflation when the blame clearly lies with Insane Clown's clownish pandemic response was nothing short of political malpractice. As was refusing to utter the forbidden words Project 25 and above all "YOU BELONG IN JAIL". Those 4 words alone would have been a game changer and adding for good measure that no one knows better than Insane Clown himself which is why he pleaded like a bitch for immunity. Insane Clown was eminently and easily beatable by damn near anyone but no one wants a Barbie Doll for president and that is what Democrats presented as the alternative to this Insane Clown madman. Predictably voters went with the madman. Damn shame.
I love the debate as an example. The centrists view politics as a debate. All you need to do is have better policies, and voters will flock to you. But Kamala Harris literally won the debate, and Trump won the election. You need more than just being "the bigger adult."
Great article but, uh, why are you still on Twitter? Stop going to the Nazi Bar, bro.
Thanks! As for Twitter, I generally go wherever the people are. Twitter, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Music/Podcasts, and even Substack have problematic ownership that is too right-wing for my taste. If I only used social media (or any other type of company) that aligned with my values, my message wouldn't reach anyone. Though I understand others have a different view.
Bc a lot of non-Nazis still use it. Should we cede that ground to neoliberal freaks like Chait? I’d rather people like Joe stay there and provide counter-arguments to their out of touch nonsense.
How many of their actual audience are still on X, though? And since those are de facto the audience for rebuttal, it strikes me the conversations would be more effective on BlueSky.
My assessment of her loss is not so much in terms of 'moving left vs right'. Declaring that she'd be Biden 2.0 was a massive mistake. Voters wanted a better path on healthcare like M4A (heck, even right-wingers are saying we need to find something better than the status quo). Even if M4A is dead on arrival in the Senate, it's a motivating message, and breaking up the giant healthcare monopolies and building a stronger pipeline of doctors and nurse practitioners would at least be a good-faith down payment (with strong bipartisan appeal, I might add). So she definitely should have moved leftward on healthcare. However, voters did indicate that lax border enforcement was a problem, but they did NOT want masked, unaccountable, undertrained, Trump-loyal cosplayers ripping people out of their homes and cars on their way to work, and this was entirely predictable for anyone that had been paying attention to Trump's rhetoric. Promising to return to Obama-style border enforcement would have sorted that issue for her, instead she essentially promised to do nothing re the border and nothing re the huge increase in abuse of the asylum system as a backdoor immigration system. She also ignored voter concern about inflation, at least paying lip service to fighting inflation and bringing down grocery prices would have helped.
Harris was never not a moderate lol.
In what way wasn’t she?
I'm agreeing with you. I just find it laughable that these people would claim otherwise.
Sorry! I misread your comment.