I'd love to hear from people who lived through Occupy Wall Street. Do you see protest movements as having evolved? Or, do you think they're doomed for the same irrelevancy as Occupy?
The struggles related to creating and utilizing a Spokes Council were quite fascinating, and trying to refine and implement this structure, in the midst of the constant challenges and unique limitations and abundance of OWS was... intense. There are some great articles about that element of the protest and they do a far superior job of describing vs what I can do in the limitations of this space. Perhaps check them out, though I'm guessing that your reading stack is like mine, continually teetering, so I understand if you pass. Cheers.
I didn’t but I know your brand . I could tell from the title . It’s just shame all you bigots are coming out of your holes . We can all tell you are deeply insecure sad people . The Jews are not the reason your hate yourself - you are . Once you stop hating yourself maybe you can stop spreading that hate to others
What did occupy Wall Street achieve exactly ? I guess if you mean learn how to be an irrelevant fringe movement that has no achievable goals that does nothing for their cause they’ve learned a lot
Not that you care, but it was cited by Republicans as a key driver in changing the political landscape and framing of inequality. Although going back to WTO more than 10 years prior, and beyond, it was a tipping point for much broader comfortability around “capitalism is bad/not helpful to us” … might sound obvious as hell now but it wasn’t even mainstream progressive narrative then.
It was instructional in lots of ways, one of the most important I saw in Naarm/Melbourne and Australia was the continuation of mutual aid affinity groups - some of which continue their legacy today. We saw occupy sandy, occupy debt, it was a rich learning ground and legacy bloomed. The critiques are fair - though the spokescouncil structures were different in various areas. When people don’t have facilitation skills it makes it hard going. There is only so much you can teach quickly. Like so much direct action work you learn from doing.
I have been hella impressed with the young students. Very tight discipline for the most part and some of the mini briefs and knowledge shares I’ve seen on TikTok re protest rights, physical tactics have been exceptional. More power to em! Though dammit older activists need to stop telling people to put baby shampoo in eyes! Listen to your street medics babes! Water! Easy and simple :)
Enough of this left, right, left, right b*s* these are common people of America. Anti-war sentiment and activism is not an exceptional american thing after all.
Sorry Joe but understandably there's a fair # of inaccuracies in your brief but overly broad summation of OWS philosophies, tactics, etc. My observations are informed by having been involved with OWS from prior to occupying Liberty Plaza (aka Zuccotti), being involved in multiple working groups (incl The Occupied Office) and on the ground the entire time. Not bragging, really, just qualifying and I absolutely do not speak for OWS.
Regarding demands - had their been demands it would have limited the involvement and growth by excluding the concerns of select groups and individuals, made it easy to dismiss OWS with platitudes and empty, soundbite "proposals" from the... 'establishment'. Most importantly, and my experience of the main reason demands were rejected, we did not want to ask for permission and favors from an establishment that had to be so radically overhauled that to make demands of them for action would be to accept that they had the answers and were actually willing to make the necessary changes.
As far as, "All decisions were made by rudimentary democracy, via hand signals." Sorry to be blunt, but this is an insulting simplification that demonstrates your lack of knowledge and or researching OWS. I suggest you do a Google search of "OWS Spokes Council"
Given what I've learned about your beliefs from your posts Im fairly certain you will appreciate efforts and passion that went into the formation and actions related to this body. You might even feel out a bit. I know that a free lengthy books have been written as well.
I could continue but respectfully I truly do not want to turn this into a rant. While I absolutely appreciate the intent and the spirit of your posts observations, and you made some nice connections at times, I just wish you had either researched what you were intending to contrast more deeply or had been less grandiose and broad in your assessment.
Never apologize for sharing your opinion! As long as your thoughts are genuine, don't feel bad about sharing what you believe.
Per demands, I get where you're coming from but I do believe at some point movements need to clearly state what they're protesting for. Of course, this will limit reach as not everyone will agree to them, but I think it's the only way to stay effective. I don't think demands are acknowledging establishment powers "have the answers," but rather they have power, which I believe is indisputable.
As for the organization, as I understand them Spoke Councils are entirely horizontal — the spokes return to their group to convey messages and votes, but widespread votes are still required (please correct me if you experienced differently). Don't get me wrong, I think all power should be generated from the participants, but I think it's more efficient to have an elected body that can act quickly.
I'd love to hear from people who lived through Occupy Wall Street. Do you see protest movements as having evolved? Or, do you think they're doomed for the same irrelevancy as Occupy?
Insightful
Thanks, Hossam!
The struggles related to creating and utilizing a Spokes Council were quite fascinating, and trying to refine and implement this structure, in the midst of the constant challenges and unique limitations and abundance of OWS was... intense. There are some great articles about that element of the protest and they do a far superior job of describing vs what I can do in the limitations of this space. Perhaps check them out, though I'm guessing that your reading stack is like mine, continually teetering, so I understand if you pass. Cheers.
I appreciate that, and I will! Thanks for your feedback.
Very interesting comparison. The revolution lives!
✊🏻
I didn’t but I know your brand . I could tell from the title . It’s just shame all you bigots are coming out of your holes . We can all tell you are deeply insecure sad people . The Jews are not the reason your hate yourself - you are . Once you stop hating yourself maybe you can stop spreading that hate to others
What did occupy Wall Street achieve exactly ? I guess if you mean learn how to be an irrelevant fringe movement that has no achievable goals that does nothing for their cause they’ve learned a lot
Not that you care, but it was cited by Republicans as a key driver in changing the political landscape and framing of inequality. Although going back to WTO more than 10 years prior, and beyond, it was a tipping point for much broader comfortability around “capitalism is bad/not helpful to us” … might sound obvious as hell now but it wasn’t even mainstream progressive narrative then.
It was instructional in lots of ways, one of the most important I saw in Naarm/Melbourne and Australia was the continuation of mutual aid affinity groups - some of which continue their legacy today. We saw occupy sandy, occupy debt, it was a rich learning ground and legacy bloomed. The critiques are fair - though the spokescouncil structures were different in various areas. When people don’t have facilitation skills it makes it hard going. There is only so much you can teach quickly. Like so much direct action work you learn from doing.
I have been hella impressed with the young students. Very tight discipline for the most part and some of the mini briefs and knowledge shares I’ve seen on TikTok re protest rights, physical tactics have been exceptional. More power to em! Though dammit older activists need to stop telling people to put baby shampoo in eyes! Listen to your street medics babes! Water! Easy and simple :)
I don't think you read this.
Enough of this left, right, left, right b*s* these are common people of America. Anti-war sentiment and activism is not an exceptional american thing after all.
Sorry Joe but understandably there's a fair # of inaccuracies in your brief but overly broad summation of OWS philosophies, tactics, etc. My observations are informed by having been involved with OWS from prior to occupying Liberty Plaza (aka Zuccotti), being involved in multiple working groups (incl The Occupied Office) and on the ground the entire time. Not bragging, really, just qualifying and I absolutely do not speak for OWS.
Regarding demands - had their been demands it would have limited the involvement and growth by excluding the concerns of select groups and individuals, made it easy to dismiss OWS with platitudes and empty, soundbite "proposals" from the... 'establishment'. Most importantly, and my experience of the main reason demands were rejected, we did not want to ask for permission and favors from an establishment that had to be so radically overhauled that to make demands of them for action would be to accept that they had the answers and were actually willing to make the necessary changes.
As far as, "All decisions were made by rudimentary democracy, via hand signals." Sorry to be blunt, but this is an insulting simplification that demonstrates your lack of knowledge and or researching OWS. I suggest you do a Google search of "OWS Spokes Council"
Given what I've learned about your beliefs from your posts Im fairly certain you will appreciate efforts and passion that went into the formation and actions related to this body. You might even feel out a bit. I know that a free lengthy books have been written as well.
I could continue but respectfully I truly do not want to turn this into a rant. While I absolutely appreciate the intent and the spirit of your posts observations, and you made some nice connections at times, I just wish you had either researched what you were intending to contrast more deeply or had been less grandiose and broad in your assessment.
Respectfully submitted.
Never apologize for sharing your opinion! As long as your thoughts are genuine, don't feel bad about sharing what you believe.
Per demands, I get where you're coming from but I do believe at some point movements need to clearly state what they're protesting for. Of course, this will limit reach as not everyone will agree to them, but I think it's the only way to stay effective. I don't think demands are acknowledging establishment powers "have the answers," but rather they have power, which I believe is indisputable.
As for the organization, as I understand them Spoke Councils are entirely horizontal — the spokes return to their group to convey messages and votes, but widespread votes are still required (please correct me if you experienced differently). Don't get me wrong, I think all power should be generated from the participants, but I think it's more efficient to have an elected body that can act quickly.